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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 456 for the 16th of July

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2017 richardsaunders here with you from

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a beautifully cold and crisp and

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delightful Sydney Australia I do like

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this time of year and I do like the the

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wintry days in fact it's very cold

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across Australia and down in the self I

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noticed they're having quite a cold snap

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with record-breaking cold temperatures I

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think I'll have to have a skeptic zone

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expedition down there too to investigate

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but what's coming up on this week's

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episode we have a few short reports

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short interviews from Nexus the North

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East Conference of science and

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skepticism a couple of weeks ago in New

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York I catch up with Sharon from

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guerrilla skepticism on Wikipedia and

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also I chat to dr. Harriet Hall now

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Harriet gave such an interesting talk at

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the convention and during her talk she

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mentioned a book called nibbling on

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Einstein's brain the good the bad and

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the bogus in science by Diane Swanson

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and

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I have a copy of the book right here

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because as soon as she recommended it

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during her talk I went online and I

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bought myself a copy and I think next

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week's episode we'll have a review just

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flipping through it now it looks really

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good it's all about critical thinking

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and science for children fantastic thank

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you dr. hall for recommending that book

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anyway a chat with Sharon from guerrilla

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skepticism on Wikipedia and Harriet hall

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coming up at the top of the show

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following that it's brouhaha science

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this week AI artificial intelligence in

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the home possibly saving lives a very

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interesting and slightly spooky but

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slightly good report then it's dr.

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Ritchie reports with the dr. Rachel

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Dunlop this week dr. Ratey interviews

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Craig Egan about his activities

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following the VAX bus the vac bus this

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is the facts this is this pseudo

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documentary

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together by andrew wakefield and a bunch

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of by andrew wakefield and his friends

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and craig apparently is following the

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vexed bus around the united states to to

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put his point of view to refute some of

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the information coming out about that

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documentary I think you'll find Craig's

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enthusiasm when he chats to dr. Richie

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infectious if I may use that term anyway

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dr. Reggie reports coming up a bit later

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on in the show after that a report from

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the Australian skeptics about the

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therapeutics Goods Administration

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publishing a draft list of permitted

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indications for listed complementary

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medicines now some of the terms that

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they're throwing about include things

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like yin and yang and gives you some

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idea what can we expect from the

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government hopefully none anyway that

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report coming up a little bit later on

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in the show then to round off the show

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it's guest reporter Kevin Davies

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interviewing professor John Carver from

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the research school of chemistry at the

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Australian National University and

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professor Carver is going to be telling

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Kevin about the misconceptions when it

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comes to chemicals chemicals are

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everywhere is anything really chemical

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free find out when Kevin Davies

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interviews professor John Carver and a

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big THANK YOU to Kevin Davies who

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occasionally does some guest reporting

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much appreciated well that's enough for

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me at the moment I'm gonna run

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downstairs have another glass of hot

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water it's an empty glass hot water and

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ginger because my throat's still a

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little bit mmm

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dry I'm not sure what's going on when I

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fly across the Pacific from California

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back home well when I fly anywhere

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really long flights tend to dry out the

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throat done really back I'm nearly back

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to her together to normal if I ever

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really was I'm gonna run downstairs have

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some more hot water and ginger to serve

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the sore throat and all I'm doing that I

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you enjoy the skeptic zone

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[Music]

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it's the first day well they're really

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it's the second day of Northeast

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Conference of science and skepticism I

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don't know what's going on in the other

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room we'll find out soon

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I'm with Sharon from guerrilla

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skepticism hello hello

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it's the voice you know folks from the

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it never ends you've heard me on the

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podcast before I do the promo

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so what's it what's it like being part

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of the guerrilla skepticism outfit well

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Susan definitely keeps us on our toes

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all the time she's always telling me

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that I need to get in there and keep

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working on my edits so yes and you get

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feel like you're doing a lot of good

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this is a side of Susan I didn't know

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about she's a bit of a hard taskmaster

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she does keep on us definitely so she

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should because but it's it's an amazing

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outfit and the work is never-ending huh

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oh yeah that's absolutely true I mean

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there's so many new things to write

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about and then always keeping track of

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what you know is being edited on your

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websites or your Wikipedia pages that

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you know you want to make sure that the

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the truth is out there so I guess we

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should give a shout out to Susan who I'm

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sure would have loved to have been here

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oh I know she would yeah she was

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constantly saying how much he was like

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disappointed that she wasn't going to be

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here as well but we'll see her at

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saikhan oh I would like to go to saikhan

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but I don't think I can make that one

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unfortunately but I'm glad she will be

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and you too yes I will and that's in Las

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Vegas

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yeah yeah and I do miss going to Las

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Vegas because because the amazing

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meeting is no longer happening well this

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is taking its place

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I wouldn't yes taking its place to

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substitute know this sort of it's it's

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the next best writer

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yeah I never made it to any Tam so I I

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don't know how to compare it but it

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looks the program looks like it's gonna

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be really interesting that does and the

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program for this event we're actually

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we're in the the emergency a alternative

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room because there was a bit of a fire

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situation where we were supposed to meet

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with Nexus so we're in the Pennsylvania

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hotel office at Madison Square Garden

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and let's why don't we walk through here

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we just passed the registration area and

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we're walking into the auditorium now my

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goodness and me this is a surprise this

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is I will have to get a little trolley

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to get down to the other end I think

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this is huge this is much bigger than I

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anticipated so and the crowd are

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beginning to take their seats down the

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far end right near the stage and if we

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keep walking long enough we'll reach

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we'll get to the front eventually and

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they've got big screen setup and cameras

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so people all the way back let me have a

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look down here way back to the back of

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the room so everybody will be off to get

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a good view of the of what's going on so

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I think they did very well to get this I

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think they did very well well we should

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prepare for the next few days of music

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apparently

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or the crowd gathering behind us I'm

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here at the the front of the auditorium

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with dr. Harriet hall hello Harry hello

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Richard impromptu interview this is it's

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an impromptu interview impromptu

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intervention I just wanted to say that

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what how how grateful I am that you did

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that series of videos since we advertise

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frequently on the skeptic zone science

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based medicine and I'm sure my listen is

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a very familiar with this series by now

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and there was what two years one year

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when how long have did you do those I

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lose track which I must have been two

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years ago sounds about right to me and

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in that in that time since it's been

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online what has been the general

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reaction well I've gotten all kinds of

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wonderful feedbacks from several

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different countries around the world and

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one from a lady in Denmark who said her

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autistic daughter had watched it and was

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really impressed she says that lady

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really says it like it is

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well I must I must say that she's right

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and it's one of the delights of your

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video series is you call it as it is

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which is quite quite charming in a way

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but you must you must have had some

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surprising shall we say negative

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feedback too not so much of the video

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series I get a lot of negative emails on

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these articles that I write for science

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based medicine but sometimes the

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feedback I get it's really pretty

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meaningless they say things like you

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don't know what you're talking about you

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should stop saying those things I mean

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Everwood how do you respond to something

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like that

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yeah well anyway again thank you for

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doing that video series I think it's a

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wonderful overview of not only things

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like homeopathy and energy medicine and

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chiropractic which you talked about but

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the general principles of science-based

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medicine I can't recommend it highly

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enough well thank you very much I tried

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to distill into that presentation all of

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what I've learned since I've been

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working with science-based medicine I

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have learned a lot believe me

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I believe it okay thank you Richard

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dr. Harriet Hall MD no into thousands as

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the skeptic a retired family physician

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and former Air Force flight surgeon she

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writes about medicine so-called

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complementary and alternative medicine

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science quackery and critical thinking

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Harriet now has a free course a series

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of 10 video lectures on science-based

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medicine and alternative medicine the

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videos and an accompanying course guide

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can be found by following the link at

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skeptic dot info or by visiting web

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Randi's org slash

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educational - modules dot html' topics

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covered in the series are science-based

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medicine vs. evidence-based medicine

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what is Kam chiropractic acupuncture

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homeopathy naturopathy and herbal

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medicine energy medicine miscellaneous

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alternatives pitfalls in research and

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science based medicine in the media and

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politics Harriette covers each topic in

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a matter-of-fact no-nonsense way that

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shorter educate and entertain skeptic

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dot info

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[Music]

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and now direct from the cafe and

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Australia's Science Channel its brouhaha

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science in less time that it takes to

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heartbreaking situation was avoided with

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the help of technology recently in the

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United States an artificially

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intelligent device was accidentally

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prompted to call law enforcement during

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a domestic violence incident when the

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phone call connected emergency services

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could hear the conflict and sent police

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officers when they arrived they stepped

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in broke up the struggle and potentially

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saved the life of a woman and a child

278
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the device that saved the day wasn't

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designed to do so but we're so glad it

280
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:11,180
did technology continues to improve our

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lives in ways we didn't expect domestic

282
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violence is where AI could make a

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dramatic impact far too often

284
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victims of domestic violence don't or

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aren't able to report their abuse or

286
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their abuses and when they do find a way

287
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to tell someone their reports are

288
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treated with suspicion an artificially

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intelligent system can turn shades of

290
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grey into black and white hey I won't

291
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give anyone a second chance or the

292
00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:39,020
benefit of the doubt and a hard drive

293
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will remember exactly what happened

294
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for more brouhaha and australian science

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[Music]

296
00:14:14,850 --> 00:14:12,110
hey Richard oh hi Trisha

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Wow would you like a coffee yeah thanks

298
00:14:18,450 --> 00:14:16,510
what you're working on I'm trying to

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come up with a new promo to play on the

300
00:14:23,190 --> 00:14:21,310
sceptic zone who's it for the good

301
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:23,200
thinking Society in the UK you know

302
00:14:27,450 --> 00:14:25,510
Michael Marshall Simon Singh Laura

303
00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:27,460
Thomas into that Club oh yeah I know

304
00:14:31,550 --> 00:14:29,080
them they've been doing some great work

305
00:14:34,260 --> 00:14:31,560
investigating the veterinary homeopathy

306
00:14:36,750 --> 00:14:34,270
veterinary homeopathy what you sugarpill

307
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:36,760
this for cows I know right and also

308
00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:37,720
they're looking at some of the dodgy

309
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:39,990
medical advice given by UK chiropractors

310
00:14:45,390 --> 00:14:42,370
really ok look but I'll mention all that

311
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in the promo now their website is good

312
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:50,050
thinking society and they've recently

313
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:51,760
been reporting on the resurgence of

314
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:54,250
faith healer peter Popoff you know right

315
00:14:56,340 --> 00:14:54,970
ok look

316
00:15:06,090 --> 00:14:56,350
thanks to that it gives me something

317
00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:06,100
good to think about now it's time for

318
00:15:17,489 --> 00:15:14,699
hello listeners and welcome to dr. Ratey

319
00:15:19,979 --> 00:15:17,499
reports well this week I speak to Craig

320
00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:19,989
Egan who is a pro back scene activist

321
00:15:25,049 --> 00:15:22,360
who has been following the faxed bus

322
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:25,059
around America simply doing some

323
00:15:29,549 --> 00:15:27,040
protesting by holding up a sign and just

324
00:15:31,619 --> 00:15:29,559
sort of being there to remind them that

325
00:15:33,239 --> 00:15:31,629
they might be misinformed in the

326
00:15:35,579 --> 00:15:33,249
information that they're spreading

327
00:15:37,949 --> 00:15:35,589
around the country and we met up in

328
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,959
Jackson Wyoming when he was halfway

329
00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:40,480
through his tour to talk about what was

330
00:15:48,869 --> 00:15:45,220
happening and here he is Craig Egan so

331
00:15:52,009 --> 00:15:48,879
I'm sitting in the lab here in Jackson

332
00:15:54,299 --> 00:15:52,019
Wyoming with the wonderful and amazing

333
00:15:57,530 --> 00:15:54,309
SuperDuper farmer she'll crank egan

334
00:16:00,989 --> 00:15:57,540
hello Craig welcome to the skeptic zone

335
00:16:02,189 --> 00:16:00,999
this is incredible right so I didn't

336
00:16:04,590 --> 00:16:02,199
really know much about what you've been

337
00:16:07,229 --> 00:16:04,600
doing but you are following the vexed

338
00:16:10,139 --> 00:16:07,239
bus around America yeah it's holding

339
00:16:12,059 --> 00:16:10,149
them to account I guess and I really

340
00:16:13,859 --> 00:16:12,069
only found out about this last night and

341
00:16:15,780 --> 00:16:13,869
you happen to be in Idaho Falls which is

342
00:16:17,669 --> 00:16:15,790
90 minutes away so you've come to town

343
00:16:19,619 --> 00:16:17,679
we're gonna go out and have some dinner

344
00:16:22,439 --> 00:16:19,629
and you can tell me all about what's

345
00:16:25,379 --> 00:16:22,449
been happening on the backs bus tour so

346
00:16:28,319 --> 00:16:25,389
tell me how this actually started it

347
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:28,329
started like most of my grand adventures

348
00:16:35,999 --> 00:16:33,279
as a joke I've been arguing with

349
00:16:36,449 --> 00:16:36,009
anti-vaxxers on Facebook for about five

350
00:16:38,789 --> 00:16:36,459
years

351
00:16:40,379 --> 00:16:38,799
yeah and I knew the backs bus was going

352
00:16:42,780 --> 00:16:40,389
around the country and I knew what their

353
00:16:44,369 --> 00:16:42,790
mission was but they were coming through

354
00:16:47,309 --> 00:16:44,379
my town where I live in Tacoma

355
00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:47,319
Washington and setting up camp Lane

356
00:16:51,059 --> 00:16:49,720
literally like six blocks away so there

357
00:16:52,499 --> 00:16:51,069
was something I just couldn't ignore you

358
00:16:56,909 --> 00:16:52,509
know they're gonna be that close to my

359
00:17:00,569 --> 00:16:56,919
house yeah so I got myself a sign you

360
00:17:03,150 --> 00:17:00,579
know pen on poster board sign and went

361
00:17:05,309 --> 00:17:03,160
down to protest them maybe have some

362
00:17:07,289 --> 00:17:05,319
conversations which I did but the first

363
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:07,299
conversation I really had was with a

364
00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:11,049
news reporter for the television news

365
00:17:16,289 --> 00:17:14,230
and so I was like well that was easy a

366
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:16,299
kid hugging TV and you know get my voice

367
00:17:20,879 --> 00:17:18,970
heard a little bit at least and so I

368
00:17:21,929 --> 00:17:20,889
went home and I look at the rest of the

369
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,939
schedule to see they were going to

370
00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:23,439
because they're going to Seattle which

371
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:25,240
was also very close and then some

372
00:17:29,010 --> 00:17:27,370
their towns in Washington and I just

373
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:29,020
kind of offhand made the joke what if I

374
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:30,160
followed him around like they were the

375
00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:34,809
Grateful Dead leave it out my little

376
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:36,760
tent right next to them every time they

377
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:39,970
I did it and one thing led to another

378
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:41,260
some people were like hey I would

379
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:44,050
totally chip in for that and so I was

380
00:17:47,549 --> 00:17:45,280
like okay if people are demanding it

381
00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:47,559
I'll put up a GoFundMe and the GoFundMe

382
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:49,720
got like seven thousand dollars in three

383
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:51,510
days

384
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:55,090
yeah right yeah and and humbling cuz

385
00:17:59,700 --> 00:17:56,410
they're definitely go fund me is out

386
00:18:01,530 --> 00:17:59,710
there better way more deserve but I'm

387
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:01,540
I'm trying to make the most of it I'm

388
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:03,460
trying to gather so we're going I've

389
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:07,450
been to Montana Idaho many stops in

390
00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:08,710
Washington we're going to be going to

391
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:11,620
Kansas and Missouri and Minneapolis and

392
00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:15,730
Des Moines really all over so so what's

393
00:18:18,690 --> 00:18:17,110
the reaction being like from the

394
00:18:22,169 --> 00:18:18,700
anti-vaxxers because you were already

395
00:18:24,510 --> 00:18:22,179
known to them right oh yes many of them

396
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:24,520
yes so tell us who is on this vexed bus

397
00:18:31,770 --> 00:18:27,760
- at first so every stop you've got

398
00:18:34,890 --> 00:18:31,780
Suzanne Humphreys you've got Paulie

399
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:34,900
Tommy who produces the movie and then on

400
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:36,880
select occasions Andrew Wakefield

401
00:18:40,290 --> 00:18:38,770
himself will show up and do it on a yeah

402
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:40,300
so I actually sat in a room with Andrew

403
00:18:45,419 --> 00:18:41,590
Wakefield and Washington answer

404
00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:45,429
questions Wow and it's the weirdest

405
00:18:48,450 --> 00:18:46,750
feeling it's like the opposite of

406
00:18:50,220 --> 00:18:48,460
starstruck you know what I mean it's

407
00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:50,230
like these people that you've known you

408
00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:52,600
know has not a celebrity but isn't you

409
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:55,390
know a villain if you know for a long

410
00:18:59,010 --> 00:18:56,770
time and to be in the room with three of

411
00:19:01,260 --> 00:18:59,020
them you know watch you in Q&A it's kind

412
00:19:03,930 --> 00:19:01,270
of surreal and what's their reaction to

413
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:03,940
you being like have they been aggressive

414
00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:06,250
or upset or do they just ignore you

415
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:08,260
what's happened so they they have not

416
00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:09,730
been aggressive one of them actually

417
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:10,990
brought me a bottle of water when I was

418
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:12,370
standing in the heat on one of the first

419
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:17,910
fence tops it's it's the some of the

420
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:20,890
attendees have been a little more not

421
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:22,330
aggressive but definitely

422
00:19:26,669 --> 00:19:24,640
confrontational with me I've gone to

423
00:19:28,890 --> 00:19:26,679
some I've got some discussions I've got

424
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:28,900
some arguments but it's all been mostly

425
00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:32,830
civil the reaction online is

426
00:19:38,669 --> 00:19:36,940
way outta trouble everybody

427
00:19:40,289 --> 00:19:38,679
they think I'm attacking their children

428
00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:40,299
they think I'm there to videotape their

429
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:41,740
children I'm a slim sir child predator

430
00:19:46,009 --> 00:19:44,230
they think I'm being simultaneous they

431
00:19:48,269 --> 00:19:46,019
simultaneously claim that I'm absolutely

432
00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:48,279
disorganized an amateur which is true

433
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:52,230
but I'm also being funded by Big Pharma

434
00:19:57,149 --> 00:19:55,120
how they can second Sal yeah those two

435
00:19:59,399 --> 00:19:57,159
so this is and then something that this

436
00:20:01,470 --> 00:19:59,409
is the best pharma can send I'm not

437
00:20:03,090 --> 00:20:01,480
being said by anybody who does they do

438
00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:03,100
too got a funny idea you know if Big

439
00:20:07,139 --> 00:20:05,289
Pharma was gonna JD's you don't I never

440
00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:07,149
can they just in one bloke would they oh

441
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:08,769
you have a friend with you though I do I

442
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:09,970
do have a friend of me but he's not

443
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:11,919
really part of the fight he's just there

444
00:20:16,649 --> 00:20:14,950
to hold the camera this guy stays out of

445
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:16,659
the way and make sure I don't get in too

446
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,370
much trouble so what do you actually do

447
00:20:22,409 --> 00:20:20,799
do you go to the screenings or do you

448
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:22,419
stand at the front or what do you do yes

449
00:20:27,870 --> 00:20:25,330
so um the way their tour is mostly set

450
00:20:30,570 --> 00:20:27,880
up is they will just basically pull up

451
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:30,580
the bus to put up a couple of um you

452
00:20:35,399 --> 00:20:33,730
know like a booth tents you know we

453
00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:35,409
cover a table and they've got to merge

454
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:36,700
lot of merch there there's going to

455
00:20:43,889 --> 00:20:39,730
shirts but sewing uh hats and then they

456
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,899
call be a show but right but really what

457
00:20:46,860 --> 00:20:45,039
they're doing is they're bringing people

458
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:46,870
onto the bus and hearing their stories

459
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:49,600
and so they're collecting stories from

460
00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:52,570
people who either are convinced that

461
00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:54,750
vaccines damaged the child in some way

462
00:21:00,539 --> 00:20:57,880
or now they're expanding that out to

463
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:00,549
where families are coming in and

464
00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:03,070
bringing their vaccinated and

465
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:04,990
unvaccinated children in and saying look

466
00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:06,130
at the health differences between my

467
00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:08,860
backs naked and my unvaccinated kid and

468
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:10,600
so it's very well controlled and

469
00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:14,500
scientifically run there's no selection

470
00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:18,340
bias at work here at all and and

471
00:21:22,529 --> 00:21:19,720
honestly it's it's actually really

472
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:22,539
disturbing to me I will I will I got 20

473
00:21:28,379 --> 00:21:25,690
bucks on a bet that more damage is being

474
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:28,389
done to those kids by bringing on a bus

475
00:21:32,730 --> 00:21:30,010
and introducing them as their damaged

476
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:32,740
kid than any vaccines have ever cost you

477
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:33,610
know what I mean I think it's just

478
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:35,230
really kind of gross I find that really

479
00:21:40,289 --> 00:21:36,970
disturbing there's a guy in Australia

480
00:21:41,549 --> 00:21:40,299
who was a hero amongst the anti-vaxxers

481
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:41,559
for a few months and now he's not

482
00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:45,490
anymore but he's got two or three grown

483
00:21:50,430 --> 00:21:48,940
males kids and he declared recently that

484
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:50,440
they were vaccine damaged and I was

485
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:52,570
thinking imagine if that was me

486
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:54,850
Yama if my mum turned around tomorrow

487
00:21:58,530 --> 00:21:56,320
and said oh by the way your vaccine

488
00:21:59,160 --> 00:21:58,540
damaged I think I'd be horrified yeah

489
00:22:01,650 --> 00:21:59,170
absolutely

490
00:22:04,020 --> 00:22:01,660
I just I really that's really bothers me

491
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:04,030
and you can maybe I'm picking up

492
00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:05,470
something that wasn't there but standing

493
00:22:08,190 --> 00:22:06,790
at these buses and watching the

494
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:08,200
interaction between his parents and kids

495
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:09,730
because they all bring their kids out to

496
00:22:16,049 --> 00:22:13,600
the bus they really treat the kids with

497
00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:16,059
conditions like differently like you can

498
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:16,360
see

499
00:22:19,470 --> 00:22:17,770
oh that's the vaccine damaged kit

500
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:19,480
there's my perfect healthy kid and it's

501
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:21,730
really just kind of gross it's it's sad

502
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:24,010
and I wish it wasn't like that I'm not

503
00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:25,210
that I I'm not going to change their

504
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:28,990
minds but yeah I just I can't believe

505
00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:30,130
that's the angle they're taking on it's

506
00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:31,809
really kind of disturbing and so did

507
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:33,460
they come up to you and speak to you

508
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:40,720
yeah I throw things at you yeah so many

509
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:41,890
of them have come up and spoke to me

510
00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:42,850
sometimes like I said more

511
00:22:46,860 --> 00:22:44,140
confrontational than others some of them

512
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:46,870
very polite you know and it's difficult

513
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:49,120
because when a parent comes up to you

514
00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:52,090
and says vaccines killed my child you

515
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:54,550
can't there's you just can't argue with

516
00:22:58,020 --> 00:22:56,170
that you know and you're not you're not

517
00:22:59,250 --> 00:22:58,030
gonna win an argument with them you're

518
00:23:00,590 --> 00:22:59,260
not gonna be the one if they believe

519
00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:00,600
that for 20 years to change their mind

520
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:04,270
and so the angle I try to take if I can

521
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:07,150
is basically to say I can't argue with

522
00:23:11,010 --> 00:23:08,530
you about your kid I don't know your

523
00:23:13,169 --> 00:23:11,020
story all I know is that following

524
00:23:15,210 --> 00:23:13,179
anti-vaxxers for the past years I have

525
00:23:17,150 --> 00:23:15,220
heard every claim under the side heard

526
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:17,160
cancer I've heard leukemia I've heard

527
00:23:22,620 --> 00:23:19,510
multiple sclerosis I've heard vaccines

528
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:22,630
made my kid gay I've heard oh yeah no

529
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:24,490
absolutely yeah 100% I've got the

530
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:25,360
screenshots I'll send em to you

531
00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:29,440
sometimes yeah there's like really

532
00:23:33,930 --> 00:23:32,380
anything under the Sun that they could

533
00:23:35,820 --> 00:23:33,940
they could view as an issue they can put

534
00:23:37,169 --> 00:23:35,830
they've been okay vaccines so that's

535
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:37,179
what I explained the reason I can't

536
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:39,820
speak to your story all I can do is put

537
00:23:44,910 --> 00:23:41,890
your story in that context yeah and say

538
00:23:47,070 --> 00:23:44,920
you know and and just talking to the

539
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:47,080
some of the people that I've went on the

540
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:48,940
bus to tell their story you've got one

541
00:23:53,340 --> 00:23:52,000
person who says oh my kid got a vaccine

542
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:53,350
and a month later they were diagnosed

543
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,970
with autism and then the next person

544
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:56,080
come in and they put their name on the

545
00:23:58,790 --> 00:23:57,760
bus's vaccine injured and then the next

546
00:24:01,070 --> 00:23:58,800
person comes along

547
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:01,080
and says my kid got a vaccine and six

548
00:24:04,430 --> 00:24:02,610
months later they have food allergy and

549
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:04,440
I made that connection and they're like

550
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:06,240
okay they put the name on the bus and so

551
00:24:10,010 --> 00:24:08,210
really they're not even even trying to

552
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:10,020
self-select a pattern

553
00:24:12,980 --> 00:24:11,310
they're not even finding a pattern

554
00:24:15,530 --> 00:24:12,990
they've got all these names on the bus

555
00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:15,540
and they're presenting it as you know

556
00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:17,220
the smoking gun evidence that vaccines

557
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:19,140
damaged but none of these stories are

558
00:24:24,170 --> 00:24:21,890
you gonna like yeah you know and so it's

559
00:24:25,820 --> 00:24:24,180
any single one of those claims would be

560
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:25,830
a big deal it would be a big deal to say

561
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:28,290
vaccines cause autism but they got a

562
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:32,010
laundry list the longer the list gets

563
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:34,440
the less credible any of it is and so

564
00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:36,240
I'm interested to hear what it was like

565
00:24:39,170 --> 00:24:37,830
to sit in the same room as Andrew

566
00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:39,180
Wakefield cuz I'm not sure how I'd

567
00:24:46,250 --> 00:24:41,400
respond tell me what that was like him

568
00:24:48,740 --> 00:24:46,260
yeah so that this was maybe the second

569
00:24:52,190 --> 00:24:48,750
to stop I went to it was very early I

570
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:52,200
had I showed up and I wasn't sure they

571
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:53,190
were gonna know who anybody was gonna

572
00:24:58,820 --> 00:24:55,760
know who I was but I had been to the

573
00:25:03,490 --> 00:24:58,830
stop at my town like two days before so

574
00:25:05,810 --> 00:25:03,500
I showed up it was at a church and I

575
00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:05,820
just went by myself a seat in the back

576
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:07,590
put her head back and just quietly sat

577
00:25:11,540 --> 00:25:10,110
there a lady came up to me and was like

578
00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:11,550
oh it brings you here today

579
00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:13,380
do you have vaccine injury and your

580
00:25:17,660 --> 00:25:15,480
family like no somebody just suggested

581
00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:17,670
it oh well do you know anything about

582
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:19,080
these studies started you know kind of

583
00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:20,430
prodding me I was like no I'm just you

584
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:22,380
know I try to keep quiet and then

585
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:23,730
finally she was like you don't want to

586
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:25,050
talk about this do you

587
00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:26,370
I was like oh I'm just kind of here for

588
00:25:35,150 --> 00:25:28,020
the movie he's like you know I know you

589
00:25:38,420 --> 00:25:35,160
are about her vaccine she was the one

590
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:38,430
who said their kid had a dairy allergy

591
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:40,110
six months after vaccines and she said

592
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:42,330
made the connection and and all of a

593
00:25:46,850 --> 00:25:43,110
sudden there were four people

594
00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:46,860
surrounding me I was like but they were

595
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:48,420
there okay they were there they're

596
00:25:51,620 --> 00:25:49,650
they're civil they were clients they're

597
00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:51,630
like let's watch the movie with an open

598
00:25:57,170 --> 00:25:54,360
mind okay but the movie that they're

599
00:25:58,850 --> 00:25:57,180
showing in on the tour is just like a

600
00:26:00,320 --> 00:25:58,860
20-minute teaser it's not the full

601
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:00,330
version oh really

602
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:01,770
yeah then you have to go on five yeah

603
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:02,960
they've got a sale they've got a

604
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:07,890
merchant of course twenty bucks a pop

605
00:26:12,620 --> 00:26:09,600
but they just show you like the 20

606
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:12,630
minute condensed version so I watched it

607
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:17,910
and that was it was BS just a lot of

608
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:19,440
emotional pleas and a lot of not a lot

609
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:21,750
of science and then Andrew Wakefield

610
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:25,200
came out and Polly Tommy and Suzanne

611
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,210
Humphreys and they were on stage and it

612
00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:29,520
was a Q&A and I just I kept my mouth

613
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:29,940
shut

614
00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:31,110
I'm like if I'm gonna get

615
00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:32,670
confrontational it's I've got plenty of

616
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:35,070
stops in the future I hope you burn my

617
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:38,330
bridge today so I watched it and I just

618
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:42,510
it was like they want to say oh we're

619
00:26:48,050 --> 00:26:44,820
not anti-vaccine we just believe in

620
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:48,060
choice right but then then of course

621
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:49,200
they get up and make clients like Paulie

622
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:51,210
Tommy got up and said like very

623
00:26:56,060 --> 00:26:53,970
specifically doctors know that vaccines

624
00:26:58,550 --> 00:26:56,070
cause injury they do it on purpose

625
00:26:59,960 --> 00:26:58,560
because healthy kids don't make them any

626
00:27:01,670 --> 00:26:59,970
money and that's why they kick

627
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:01,680
unvaccinated children out of their

628
00:27:04,550 --> 00:27:03,510
practices because they can't make any

629
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:04,560
money off them because they don't have

630
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:06,570
any health problems Wow and I was like

631
00:27:10,250 --> 00:27:08,490
how can you stand here and say this is

632
00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:10,260
an absolute magazine and then claim

633
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:12,150
doctors of poisoning children on purpose

634
00:27:23,660 --> 00:27:14,070
for profit yeah as you know what I mean

635
00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:23,670
and so these accusations are insane

636
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:26,400
right yes and so they got to the point

637
00:27:29,150 --> 00:27:27,570
where they said well this is the last

638
00:27:31,670 --> 00:27:29,160
question and I was like well I'm just

639
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:31,680
gonna sneak out now and so I tried to

640
00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:33,420
and the lady would talk to me before

641
00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:35,940
kind of polity to the lobby and then

642
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:37,470
just kind of cornered me for like a good

643
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:39,360
another 15 20 minutes and I'm trying to

644
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:41,250
explain hey I left my girlfriend at her

645
00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:44,730
kid at Chuck E Cheese I came to this

646
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:45,960
grating I have to go pick them up now

647
00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:49,290
and she just kept on and on and on and

648
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:50,940
then finally I just had to excuse myself

649
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:53,190
and go but it was weird it was kind of

650
00:27:59,600 --> 00:27:56,130
surreal yeah and so the next time I went

651
00:28:00,410 --> 00:27:59,610
to a screening was in Spokane that's

652
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:00,420
where people got a little more

653
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:02,010
confrontational at they had the bus

654
00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:04,290
outside we did that part and then there

655
00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:07,020
was gonna be a screening and the lady

656
00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:08,940
who is the local organizer was like no

657
00:28:14,270 --> 00:28:11,100
you're not allowed to come right yes so

658
00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:14,280
they wouldn't let me in so I asked the

659
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,190
backs bus there's well they're technical

660
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:18,720
engineers also the bus driver and he

661
00:28:23,250 --> 00:28:20,410
does a lot of stories with them

662
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:23,260
his name is Anu and he's kind of a the

663
00:28:27,150 --> 00:28:25,090
good cop out of the good cop bad cop and

664
00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:27,160
he's the one who came over and and kind

665
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:28,300
of tried to make friends with me and

666
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:29,830
laughed at my sign and told me that he

667
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:31,090
actually wants to have be on the bus for

668
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,410
an interview some time on the tour

669
00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:34,480
uh-huh so I'm considering that I don't

670
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:36,700
know I have to play down right but what

671
00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:38,290
do they plan to do with these stories do

672
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:39,640
you know is it like a second me yeah

673
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:41,290
yeah they're making a sequel where

674
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:42,310
they're like oh here's a bunch of

675
00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:44,890
families who claim to who show off their

676
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:46,540
kids and say this kids damaged with

677
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:48,310
vaccines and this kids never had a

678
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:49,840
vaccine and it's fine

679
00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:52,120
of course they're not I've got a

680
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:54,160
sneaking suspicion that if a parents

681
00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:55,450
came up and said oh yeah I've got a

682
00:28:58,920 --> 00:28:57,550
vaccinated and unvaccinated kid here's

683
00:29:00,840 --> 00:28:58,930
my vaccinated kid who's perfectly

684
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:00,850
healthy and here's my unvaccinated kid

685
00:29:04,530 --> 00:29:02,320
who can't have vaccines because they

686
00:29:06,150 --> 00:29:04,540
have cancer yeah I don't think those

687
00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:06,160
kids will get the movie No yeah I don't

688
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:06,520
think so

689
00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:08,860
well that's interesting because just

690
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:10,750
recently the Australian vaccination

691
00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:12,730
skeptic network which ow

692
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,120
out anti-vaxxers yeah they've advertised

693
00:29:21,210 --> 00:29:18,640
that the VAX team is sending a

694
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:21,220
videographer out to Australia yes to do

695
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:23,950
a VAX kind of bus thing so I presume

696
00:29:27,540 --> 00:29:26,230
that's gonna be footage for the sequel

697
00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:27,550
as well yeah yeah I think it's part of

698
00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:29,080
the same tour I think because there's a

699
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:31,870
break coming up after these few stops

700
00:29:36,510 --> 00:29:34,390
and then they'll be back for more stops

701
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:36,520
in August and so I was looking at that

702
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:38,230
break cuz their schedule has been kind

703
00:29:42,060 --> 00:29:40,090
of fluid and that break is exactly when

704
00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:42,070
they've got their Australian dates later

705
00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:46,060
okay so yeah I'll get a little bit home

706
00:29:49,950 --> 00:29:47,470
before I get back out of the road

707
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:49,960
well so I mean I think you're a brave

708
00:29:59,880 --> 00:29:58,330
man I mean we've had people in Australia

709
00:30:03,690 --> 00:29:59,890
who've gone to antioxidants and have

710
00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:03,700
being kicked out or being yelled at and

711
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:04,990
stuff like that so you know it's not

712
00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:06,310
something that I would want to do

713
00:30:11,010 --> 00:30:08,920
necessarily I think I'd rather I don't

714
00:30:12,420 --> 00:30:11,020
suggest it I I'm I kept doing it from

715
00:30:12,990 --> 00:30:12,430
behind my keyboard but I'm not sure if

716
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:13,000
I'd wanted to

717
00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:15,310
okay so you know I'm thinking are we

718
00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:16,270
doing a good thing

719
00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:18,670
thank you um and I don't I mean do you

720
00:30:23,070 --> 00:30:20,380
hope to achieve anything specifically

721
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:23,080
out of this so just sort of be in their

722
00:30:27,870 --> 00:30:26,170
face a little bit I have battled with

723
00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:27,880
anti-vaxxers for about five years online

724
00:30:33,580 --> 00:30:29,980
and every one of my victories was

725
00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:33,590
unexpected so I'm just gonna

726
00:30:37,450 --> 00:30:35,390
going with the flow I'm just gonna stand

727
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:37,460
there with my sign where the opportunity

728
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:39,130
arises and I gonna grab it I was

729
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:42,289
something that goes down but even right

730
00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:46,760
now there's it's I'm at least exposing

731
00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:49,580
them in some way to some people and and

732
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:51,950
when reporters show up even the

733
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:53,330
reporters who fall into the false

734
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:55,490
equivalency trap and print out an

735
00:31:00,580 --> 00:30:57,890
article that really isn't a good article

736
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:00,590
about the whole situation like that just

737
00:31:10,299 --> 00:31:04,640
happened I had in Montana that my

738
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:10,309
picture was on the paper there like the

739
00:31:15,539 --> 00:31:11,600
anti-vaxxers comes down and there's a

740
00:31:21,220 --> 00:31:15,549
picture of me my protests by tonight so

741
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:21,230
that to me is where the grand backs bus

742
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:26,210
when they got that newspaper you know

743
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:27,970
that's all I could do great but

744
00:31:32,580 --> 00:31:30,830
hopefully one of the great things that

745
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:32,590
happened to one of the stops was I met

746
00:31:37,210 --> 00:31:34,490
some parents who were also there

747
00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:37,220
protesting with their own signs oh great

748
00:31:44,590 --> 00:31:41,630
and they'd have 12 children and one of

749
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:44,600
their one of their daughters relies not

750
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:46,970
relies on other people to be vaccinated

751
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:49,610
to save her and not just in the normal

752
00:31:54,370 --> 00:31:52,250
herd immunity sense but she actually has

753
00:31:57,549 --> 00:31:54,380
to have plasma transfusions from

754
00:31:59,500 --> 00:31:57,559
vaccinated people into her to help give

755
00:32:02,289 --> 00:31:59,510
her protection against diseases and like

756
00:32:04,139 --> 00:32:02,299
on a weekly basis and so they were there

757
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:04,149
protesting they were super sweet family

758
00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:07,130
they actually go to Seattle to the

759
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:09,020
Saddles Children Hospital every couple

760
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:10,760
months and spend weeks there so

761
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:12,230
hopefully I'll be able to reconnect with

762
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:14,240
them when they do that so if it's just

763
00:32:17,860 --> 00:32:15,890
those kind of connections I make then

764
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:17,870
it's a successful trip so would you

765
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,010
suggest that somebody does this

766
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:21,440
Australia then well isn't around yeah

767
00:32:28,930 --> 00:32:23,330
you know what I really want people to do

768
00:32:31,630 --> 00:32:28,940
and this is probably petty of me what I

769
00:32:33,159 --> 00:32:31,640
really encourage people to do is to make

770
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:33,169
an appointment with the backs bus and

771
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:35,690
get on until a vaccine injury story

772
00:32:39,549 --> 00:32:37,850
that's completely preposterous and see

773
00:32:41,799 --> 00:32:39,559
if there's anything at all that they

774
00:32:43,060 --> 00:32:41,809
will that they will dismiss us is it

775
00:32:44,690 --> 00:32:43,070
probable yeah because I don't think they

776
00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:44,700
will I think you could really get

777
00:32:47,540 --> 00:32:46,350
then claim absolutely anything and

778
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:47,550
there's I've asked them I said do you

779
00:32:50,570 --> 00:32:48,570
have you ever heard of batching story

780
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:50,580
that even you said yeah I hate vaccines

781
00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:52,290
as much as the next guy but vaccines

782
00:32:56,150 --> 00:32:54,300
probably didn't cause that no not a

783
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:56,160
single one so that's what I that's what

784
00:32:59,480 --> 00:32:57,600
I would encourage people to do is just

785
00:33:02,750 --> 00:32:59,490
go up make up the stupidest story you

786
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:02,760
can when you get on their Facebook page

787
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:04,410
with your YouTube video then you don't

788
00:33:08,990 --> 00:33:07,140
have a reveal and say I just made you

789
00:33:11,270 --> 00:33:09,000
may like the the vaaz where somebody

790
00:33:14,150 --> 00:33:11,280
said it turned them into Incredible Hulk

791
00:33:16,550 --> 00:33:14,160
and that made onto this oh yeah I

792
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:16,560
probably wouldn't say that but I would

793
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:18,720
probably I would you go in there and say

794
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:20,070
you have six kids and they'll have all

795
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:21,450
different conditions all from the back

796
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:23,370
things you know or just just go away or

797
00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:25,410
say one of my favorite one thing that

798
00:33:31,490 --> 00:33:28,470
actually see people claim and it's taken

799
00:33:35,090 --> 00:33:31,500
seriously is I didn't vaccinate my kid

800
00:33:36,620 --> 00:33:35,100
they got autism anyway so I'm pretty

801
00:33:39,410 --> 00:33:36,630
sure they were vaccinated behind my back

802
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:39,420
oh wow yeah you've got a strategy that's

803
00:33:43,580 --> 00:33:41,610
really twisting yourself in not salute

804
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,590
lee it is network and then and nobody

805
00:33:46,610 --> 00:33:45,360
disagrees nobody calls it out nobody

806
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:46,620
says yeah that's probably not true

807
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:47,850
though yeah oh yeah they do that all the

808
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:50,490
time yeah yes I mean you know what is

809
00:33:54,740 --> 00:33:53,010
there like black ops vans driving around

810
00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:54,750
and snatching kids yeah yeah pretty nice

811
00:33:59,660 --> 00:33:56,460
story I just did that comes from that

812
00:34:01,760 --> 00:33:59,670
ABN oh yeah there's no medical kidnap

813
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:01,770
that info or whatever these crazy sites

814
00:34:06,260 --> 00:34:03,480
are and that's literally what they're

815
00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:06,270
claiming yeah yeah well Craig thanks for

816
00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:07,590
taking the time to talk to us today on

817
00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:09,000
the skip design and good luck with the

818
00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:11,070
rest of your vets - ah thank you very

819
00:34:14,660 --> 00:34:12,780
much - and stay safe and say hi to

820
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:14,670
Andrew Wakefield Boris I will No No

821
00:34:21,590 --> 00:34:19,650
thank you thank you and if you happen to

822
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:21,600
be in Jackson Wyoming in the United

823
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:23,910
States of America on Monday July the

824
00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:28,020
31st at 6:00 p.m. a new movie called

825
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:31,260
toxic puzzle which looks into the role

826
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:33,690
for an environmental neurotoxin in

827
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:35,730
Alzheimer's disease and Lou Gehrig's

828
00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:38,520
disease is premiering at the Art Center

829
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:41,220
and I mention this because I'm in it

830
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:44,520
it's about my lab work and it's narrated

831
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:46,410
by the wonderful Harrison Ford

832
00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:49,890
so get along to that if you want to do

833
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:51,390
that and you're in town with Google

834
00:34:55,070 --> 00:34:54,240
toxic puzzle ad Center for the Arts in

835
00:34:57,290 --> 00:34:55,080
Jackson

836
00:35:03,660 --> 00:34:57,300
and until next time this has been dr.

837
00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:10,310
[Music]

838
00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:12,060
[Applause]

839
00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:15,430
calling all skeptics or listeners do you

840
00:35:20,099 --> 00:35:17,830
live in or near Glasgow or are you

841
00:35:22,349 --> 00:35:20,109
planning to visit something then you're

842
00:35:25,770 --> 00:35:22,359
in luck because the Glasgow scale tics

843
00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:25,780
have got your Monday nights sorted we

844
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:26,920
are committed to filling up every

845
00:35:32,490 --> 00:35:29,650
available Monday night talks on science

846
00:35:34,829 --> 00:35:32,500
and skepticism ha speakers include the

847
00:35:37,290 --> 00:35:34,839
Eugenie Scott jelly coin maker Marshall

848
00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:37,300
Nate Phelps tormund Cecil from cognitive

849
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:40,420
dissonance PZ Myers Richard Wiseman EC

850
00:35:45,089 --> 00:35:42,550
drilling nor Heath and Eli from the

851
00:35:47,370 --> 00:35:45,099
scaling atheist Simon Singh Rebecca

852
00:35:50,220 --> 00:35:47,380
Watson and a multitude of local

853
00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:50,230
academics and sceptics there's literally

854
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:52,089
nothing better you can do on a Monday

855
00:35:56,490 --> 00:35:54,160
night in Glasgow that doesn't involve

856
00:35:58,470 --> 00:35:56,500
taking your clothes off so come join us

857
00:36:00,599 --> 00:35:58,480
we've also got a vibrant online

858
00:36:02,490 --> 00:36:00,609
community you can find us on Facebook

859
00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:02,500
Twitter and get involved with the

860
00:36:07,530 --> 00:36:05,500
discussion class go skeptics self-help

861
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:07,540
or your brain

862
00:36:27,740 --> 00:36:12,330
[Music]

863
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:27,750
once again we head to the website of

864
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:30,480
Australian skeptics skeptics dot-com

865
00:36:36,819 --> 00:36:33,599
today you with the report here written

866
00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:36,829
by Tim Mendham on the 10th of July 2017

867
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:41,550
TJ's list of medical indications full of

868
00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:43,090
pseudoscience

869
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:44,660
[Music]

870
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:48,930
the Therapeutic Goods Administration TGA

871
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:51,920
has published a draft list of quote

872
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:54,780
permitted indications end quote for

873
00:37:00,079 --> 00:36:57,690
listed complementary medicines that

874
00:37:02,540 --> 00:37:00,089
includes many terms and concepts that

875
00:37:06,349 --> 00:37:02,550
are straight out of the pseudoscience

876
00:37:09,319 --> 00:37:06,359
catalog quote permitted indications and

877
00:37:11,930 --> 00:37:09,329
quote are statements that will describe

878
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:11,940
the therapeutic uses for listed

879
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,089
medicines when the permitted indications

880
00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:18,240
reform is implemented sponsors will be

881
00:37:23,299 --> 00:37:21,000
required to use them to enter their

882
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:23,309
product indications in the Australian

883
00:37:29,660 --> 00:37:26,640
register of Therapeutic Goods permitted

884
00:37:33,230 --> 00:37:29,670
indications will be assessed against a

885
00:37:36,289 --> 00:37:33,240
set of eligibility criteria to ensure

886
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:36,299
that they are appropriate for low-risk

887
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:39,839
listed medicines that are not assessed

888
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:42,089
pre-market the Commonwealth Government

889
00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:44,160
announced in September last year that

890
00:37:50,180 --> 00:37:46,950
the TGA would introduce such a list with

891
00:37:53,329 --> 00:37:50,190
the purpose of point ensuring that

892
00:37:55,579 --> 00:37:53,339
listed medicines can only make low-level

893
00:37:58,640 --> 00:37:55,589
indications that are suitable for

894
00:38:01,940 --> 00:37:58,650
medicines that do not undergo pre market

895
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:01,950
assessment point providing transparency

896
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,950
for sponsors on what indications are

897
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:06,960
suitable for listed medications to help

898
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:10,880
prevent inadvertent non-compliance and

899
00:38:17,539 --> 00:38:14,910
point avoiding consumers being misled by

900
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:17,549
inappropriate indications unlisted

901
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:21,119
medicine labels dr. Ken Harvey a regular

902
00:38:26,170 --> 00:38:23,040
campaigner against pseudo-scientific

903
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:26,180
claims in the altmed industry says

904
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:30,800
that among the 1345 permitted

905
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:33,410
indications in the draft list are many

906
00:38:38,350 --> 00:38:35,690
which lack evidence and for which

907
00:38:41,470 --> 00:38:38,360
complaints have previously been upheld

908
00:38:46,540 --> 00:38:41,480
by the TGA completes resolution panel

909
00:38:48,940 --> 00:38:46,550
such as number 7 4 0 - 7 4 7 muscle

910
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:48,950
cramp typically claims made for

911
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:52,370
magnesium quote in addition the list

912
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,650
contains numerous nonsensical

913
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:56,960
traditional Chinese medicine quote

914
00:39:02,320 --> 00:38:58,880
traditional indications end quote

915
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:02,330
without any disclaimer such as number

916
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:06,410
one quote harmonize middle burner spleen

917
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:10,880
and stomach hmm end quote and number six

918
00:39:22,180 --> 00:39:15,530
quote unblocked open relaxed meridians

919
00:39:26,830 --> 00:39:22,190
and quote and number 115 quote balance

920
00:39:28,510 --> 00:39:26,840
yin and yang end quote harvey and others

921
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:28,520
have argued that the proposed list

922
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:31,280
should be short and only contain modest

923
00:39:39,550 --> 00:39:35,200
claims such as quote may assist may help

924
00:39:41,580 --> 00:39:39,560
unquote etc quote in addition we argued

925
00:39:44,830 --> 00:39:41,590
that for consumers to make informed

926
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:44,840
purchases claims based on traditional

927
00:39:49,810 --> 00:39:46,910
use should always have a disclaimer

928
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:49,820
along the lines of what the US FTC

929
00:39:55,390 --> 00:39:52,370
proposed for homeopathic products quote

930
00:39:57,820 --> 00:39:55,400
warning traditional use does not imply

931
00:39:59,800 --> 00:39:57,830
efficacy or guarantee safety this

932
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:59,810
products traditional claims are based on

933
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:01,760
alternative health practices that are

934
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:03,890
not accepted by most modern medical

935
00:40:07,810 --> 00:40:06,290
experts there is no scientific evidence

936
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:07,820
that this product works

937
00:40:13,210 --> 00:40:10,970
end quote however industry

938
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:13,220
representatives argued that they needed

939
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:15,680
a long list of permitted indications and

940
00:40:21,460 --> 00:40:19,280
that disclaimers were unnecessary would

941
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:21,470
be misunderstood or would have no impact

942
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:24,050
on consumers the list is due to come

943
00:40:29,110 --> 00:40:26,000
into effect at the same time next year

944
00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:29,120
with the draft lists available at the

945
00:40:35,110 --> 00:40:32,680
TGA website until October 31st 2017

946
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:35,120
during this period the interested

947
00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:37,910
parties including suppliers can review

948
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,710
and provide comments

949
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:41,599
the list and proposed additional

950
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:44,480
indications or evidence qualifies prior

951
00:40:54,010 --> 00:40:50,960
to the list of being finalized balance

952
00:40:57,250 --> 00:40:54,020
the yin and yang a that story comes to

953
00:41:12,490 --> 00:40:57,260
us from skeptics Comte you published on

954
00:41:14,980 --> 00:41:12,500
the 10th of July 2017 by Tim Mendham it

955
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:14,990
never ends a friend starts talking about

956
00:41:19,300 --> 00:41:17,210
his new Reiki Master and someone else

957
00:41:21,730 --> 00:41:19,310
just posted about another all-natural

958
00:41:24,970 --> 00:41:21,740
cancer cure that they don't want you to

959
00:41:26,770 --> 00:41:24,980
know about skeptics we dedicate a lot of

960
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:26,780
time trying to protect those around us

961
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,730
but there's a way that you can reach

962
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:31,280
millions guerrilla skepticism on

963
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:33,530
Wikipedia is a group that is working to

964
00:41:38,290 --> 00:41:35,690
keep the best skeptical information at

965
00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:38,300
everyone's fingertips in all languages

966
00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:41,599
join us training is self-paced and fun

967
00:41:46,660 --> 00:41:44,420
and we have our very own super secret

968
00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:46,670
Facebook group you will be educating the

969
00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:49,070
world in your sleep to find out more

970
00:41:58,410 --> 00:41:54,220
email us at GS o w team at gmail.com

971
00:42:10,380 --> 00:41:58,420
guerrilla skepticism the time is now

972
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:10,390
music by bensound.com as skeptics no

973
00:42:16,990 --> 00:42:15,290
chemicals are well they're everywhere in

974
00:42:20,140 --> 00:42:17,000
this interview guest reporter Kevin

975
00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:20,150
Davies talks to Professor John kava from

976
00:42:23,950 --> 00:42:22,430
the australian national university about

977
00:42:27,099 --> 00:42:23,960
some of the misconceptions regarding

978
00:42:32,330 --> 00:42:27,109
chemicals and about the book chemistry

979
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:36,090
I'm here at the new with Professor John

980
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:38,710
Carver how are you going John well thank

981
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:40,210
you well we've just been at a very

982
00:42:43,890 --> 00:42:41,680
interesting book launch

983
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:43,900
yes we've launched a book called

984
00:42:46,890 --> 00:42:45,520
chemistry in the marketplace which is

985
00:42:49,050 --> 00:42:46,900
the sixth edition of this book has been

986
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:49,060
around since 1978 it's a book which

987
00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:51,310
explains chemistry in a very general

988
00:42:54,540 --> 00:42:53,350
sense to the public about how important

989
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:54,550
chemicals are and what in their

990
00:42:58,520 --> 00:42:55,900
environment in the environment and

991
00:43:00,930 --> 00:42:58,530
around us and chemicals are everywhere

992
00:43:01,770 --> 00:43:00,940
so do you want to tell us a little bit

993
00:43:03,330 --> 00:43:01,780
about yourself

994
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:03,340
well I'm director of the research school

995
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:05,290
of chemistry here at the ANU and I've

996
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,790
been in this job for four years I'm a

997
00:43:11,430 --> 00:43:09,040
professor of chemistry and I've been an

998
00:43:13,590 --> 00:43:11,440
academic since 1988 I've had experience

999
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:13,600
as an academic at the University of

1000
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:14,980
Wollongong on the University of Adelaide

1001
00:43:19,410 --> 00:43:17,530
and I actually did my PhD here many

1002
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:19,420
years ago and I've come back to the

1003
00:43:25,470 --> 00:43:23,350
place after a long gap so what I do my

1004
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:25,480
job I run the school I do a lot of

1005
00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:26,770
administration but I also do research

1006
00:43:33,210 --> 00:43:29,470
and teach so I have a very multifaceted

1007
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:33,220
job excellent excellent now I just ask

1008
00:43:40,170 --> 00:43:35,920
you a few questions about some of the

1009
00:43:43,140 --> 00:43:40,180
myths and then about chemicals so start

1010
00:43:45,450 --> 00:43:43,150
off with when you see somebody

1011
00:43:48,570 --> 00:43:45,460
advertising a product as being chemical

1012
00:43:50,850 --> 00:43:48,580
free what is your reaction of course I

1013
00:43:52,290 --> 00:43:50,860
say that's rubbish because chemicals are

1014
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:52,300
everywhere where we're at we're full of

1015
00:43:59,160 --> 00:43:54,370
chemicals ourselves and we're comprised

1016
00:44:00,480 --> 00:43:59,170
everything proteins sugars fats lipids

1017
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:00,490
everything they're all protein they're

1018
00:44:04,260 --> 00:44:03,130
all their own chemicals so to say

1019
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:04,270
something is chemical free

1020
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:07,810
maybe that implies that there's no added

1021
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,180
synthetic chemicals in there but it

1022
00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:11,920
obviously contains chemicals which are

1023
00:44:18,060 --> 00:44:14,260
naturally there so why do you think

1024
00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:18,070
there is this attitude toward being say

1025
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:20,860
chemical free even if as you say it is

1026
00:44:24,260 --> 00:44:21,690
rubbish

1027
00:44:28,130 --> 00:44:24,270
well I think it's because people have

1028
00:44:30,740 --> 00:44:28,140
some misconceptions about chemicals

1029
00:44:33,529 --> 00:44:30,750
which come from obviously situations

1030
00:44:36,460 --> 00:44:33,539
when things go awry with chemicals when

1031
00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:36,470
there's a chemical plant that

1032
00:44:40,780 --> 00:44:38,630
that releases chemists chemicals that

1033
00:44:43,660 --> 00:44:40,790
are potentially toxic when you get a

1034
00:44:47,170 --> 00:44:43,670
spill in and a river for example of a

1035
00:44:48,730 --> 00:44:47,180
chemical that is man-made and causes

1036
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:48,740
some damage mmm

1037
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:51,890
spraying pesticides or herbicides on

1038
00:44:59,230 --> 00:44:55,970
crops that make obviously work to kill

1039
00:45:00,609 --> 00:44:59,240
insects etc but if you have to match

1040
00:45:02,740 --> 00:45:00,619
them in there or even if you add

1041
00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:02,750
phosphates for example to improve your

1042
00:45:07,839 --> 00:45:05,660
yields of crops these are all important

1043
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:07,849
aspects that enabled us to feed the

1044
00:45:12,490 --> 00:45:09,950
world but they do have consequences in

1045
00:45:15,220 --> 00:45:12,500
people misconstruing them will them

1046
00:45:17,950 --> 00:45:15,230
being misused potentially and causing

1047
00:45:22,810 --> 00:45:17,960
province and so that you don't think I

1048
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:22,820
think that we where society I think in

1049
00:45:28,420 --> 00:45:24,530
terms of chemicals being banned when in

1050
00:45:30,490 --> 00:45:28,430
fact the reason why many of the aspects

1051
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:30,500
of our society why we have such an

1052
00:45:34,510 --> 00:45:32,240
advanced society is what is related to

1053
00:45:37,830 --> 00:45:34,520
our understanding of chemicals and their

1054
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:37,840
use of them and what are the some of the

1055
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:40,160
strange things people have come to you

1056
00:45:45,609 --> 00:45:43,490
with in regards to chemicals like has

1057
00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:45,619
anybody ever said something that really

1058
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:48,560
just made you sit back and go what on

1059
00:45:52,060 --> 00:45:49,440
earth

1060
00:45:55,420 --> 00:45:52,070
[Music]

1061
00:45:58,990 --> 00:45:55,430
I think the when I work in an area I

1062
00:46:00,250 --> 00:45:59,000
work on proteins in foods and we've

1063
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:00,260
we've made some interesting discoveries

1064
00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:02,510
about their important nature

1065
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:05,540
particularly milk proteins and found for

1066
00:46:10,359 --> 00:46:07,490
example that if you treat milk in a

1067
00:46:12,010 --> 00:46:10,369
certain way you'll create species called

1068
00:46:14,340 --> 00:46:12,020
amyloid fibrils that are potentially

1069
00:46:18,420 --> 00:46:14,350
toxic to

1070
00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:18,430
and we've had people come up to me and

1071
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:20,200
say well are those those particular

1072
00:46:25,860 --> 00:46:23,170
species related to diseases and they're

1073
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:25,870
not but they are present in various

1074
00:46:31,530 --> 00:46:29,440
disease related diseases such as our

1075
00:46:35,220 --> 00:46:31,540
summers and the deposits and our summers

1076
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:35,230
and Parkinson's Wow but if you ingest

1077
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:36,610
milk you don't get them it's just that

1078
00:46:39,870 --> 00:46:38,290
they haven't if you treat the milk in a

1079
00:46:42,540 --> 00:46:39,880
certain way you'll form these type of

1080
00:46:45,540 --> 00:46:42,550
structures and proteins so we've you

1081
00:46:49,020 --> 00:46:45,550
know it it's how you spin the story I

1082
00:46:50,940 --> 00:46:49,030
think how you can sometimes get

1083
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,950
misconstrue things that I think that do

1084
00:46:55,380 --> 00:46:53,200
we have to be very careful about and of

1085
00:46:56,730 --> 00:46:55,390
course we're you know we're ingesting

1086
00:46:58,620 --> 00:46:56,740
chemicals all the time and our foods

1087
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,630
which many the vast majority of which

1088
00:47:03,030 --> 00:47:00,640
are naturally there but our bodies are

1089
00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:03,040
very attuned have got systems have got

1090
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:05,950
means of detoxifying that worked very

1091
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:09,730
efficiently and that we have really when

1092
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:11,890
chemicals have done tremendous benefit

1093
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:13,810
for us in terms of food preservation for

1094
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:16,090
example we had print preservatives -

1095
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:18,010
food we've been alien for millennia -

1096
00:47:22,569 --> 00:47:20,690
food - installed as a preservative

1097
00:47:23,770 --> 00:47:22,579
when adding for ages salt has yet too

1098
00:47:26,140 --> 00:47:23,780
much salt of course it has consequences

1099
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:26,150
for your health in terms of elevated

1100
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:28,609
blood pressure etc so it's always a

1101
00:47:33,309 --> 00:47:30,890
balance I think and we just got to get

1102
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,319
things into perspective I think that's

1103
00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:35,920
probably a very good place to end it so

1104
00:47:39,810 --> 00:47:38,390
John Carver thank you very much

1105
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:39,820
pleasure good to talk to

1106
00:48:03,990 --> 00:47:59,400
save-the-date saikhan is returning to

1107
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,000
Las Vegas for 2017 today you turned on

1108
00:48:08,910 --> 00:48:06,400
your computer or your phone Facebook

1109
00:48:12,060 --> 00:48:08,920
told you that vaccines are an evil

1110
00:48:15,329 --> 00:48:12,070
government plot Twitter told you the Sun

1111
00:48:17,010 --> 00:48:15,339
is revolving around a Flat Earth and the

1112
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:17,020
House Science Committee told you that

1113
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:19,890
climate changes nothing to worry about

1114
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:24,720
meanwhile up is down true is false

1115
00:48:31,290 --> 00:48:27,790
Oceania has always been at war with East

1116
00:48:34,980 --> 00:48:31,300
Asia and dogs and cats may in fact be

1117
00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:34,990
living together enough already it's time

1118
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:38,200
once again for the forces of reason and

1119
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:40,570
science to come together time for

1120
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:42,970
critical thinkers to connect learn from

1121
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:45,730
each other and sharpen their skills time

1122
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:49,119
for the leading lights of skepticism to

1123
00:48:55,710 --> 00:48:51,760
share their wisdom and to rally the

1124
00:48:57,170 --> 00:48:55,720
troops it's time for saikhan 2017 back

1125
00:48:58,650 --> 00:48:57,180
in Las Vegas

1126
00:49:02,100 --> 00:48:58,660
[Music]

1127
00:49:05,170 --> 00:49:02,110
October the 26th to the 29th joined

1128
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:05,180
luminaries such as James the amazing

1129
00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:08,570
Randi Richard Dawkins Eugenie Scott the

1130
00:49:14,530 --> 00:49:11,720
skeptics guide to the universe susan

1131
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:14,540
gerbic Harriet Hall Richard Wiseman

1132
00:49:22,030 --> 00:49:19,280
Carrie papi Joe Nickell and many many

1133
00:49:24,850 --> 00:49:22,040
more the master of ceremonies is none

1134
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:24,860
other than George Harrap for the biggest

1135
00:49:29,380 --> 00:49:26,810
skeptics event of the year returning

1136
00:49:31,690 --> 00:49:29,390
triumphantly to the Excalibur Hotel and

1137
00:49:35,050 --> 00:49:31,700
Casino in Las Vegas the city of

1138
00:49:37,570 --> 00:49:35,060
illusions saikhan 2017 will be packed

1139
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:37,580
with fascinating talks and presentations

1140
00:49:43,630 --> 00:49:40,370
dazzling entertainment and fun social

1141
00:49:45,460 --> 00:49:43,640
events with fellow skeptics this October

1142
00:49:47,830 --> 00:49:45,470
can get away from vague news and

1143
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:47,840
conspiracy theories filling up your news

1144
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:52,160
feeds at saikhan 2017 your alternative

1145
00:50:02,000 --> 00:49:56,240
to alternative facts for more

1146
00:50:02,010 --> 00:50:19,780
[Music]

1147
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:22,220
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1148
00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:25,170
zone now next week a very special series

1149
00:50:29,630 --> 00:50:26,910
of reports and interviews we have for

1150
00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:29,640
you Heidi Robertson the raw skeptic is

1151
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:32,460
going to be reporting from starstuff the

1152
00:50:38,450 --> 00:50:36,000
astronomy our weekend in Byron Bay and

1153
00:50:41,420 --> 00:50:38,460
what a fascinating report it is at one

1154
00:50:44,540 --> 00:50:41,430
stage Heidi slips on a pair of virtual

1155
00:50:49,310 --> 00:50:44,550
reality goggles and goes for a walk on

1156
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:49,320
the planet Mars it's wonderful stuff

1157
00:50:54,620 --> 00:50:51,660
from Heidi Robertson and some interviews

1158
00:50:56,540 --> 00:50:54,630
beside that coming up next week also I

1159
00:50:58,610 --> 00:50:56,550
interview Claire Klingenberg from the

1160
00:51:01,280 --> 00:50:58,620
Czech Republic who is involved this year

1161
00:51:04,310 --> 00:51:01,290
in putting together the European

1162
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:04,320
skeptics Congress oh I wish I could go

1163
00:51:07,970 --> 00:51:06,300
to that but our reporter and president

1164
00:51:09,860 --> 00:51:07,980
of the strain skeptics Iran say give

1165
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:09,870
will be there he'll be on hand lucky

1166
00:51:15,890 --> 00:51:13,290
Iran also part one of a series of

1167
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:15,900
reports with Anne Reed from the National

1168
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:17,910
Center for Science education based in

1169
00:51:23,150 --> 00:51:20,640
Oakland California I went along to the

1170
00:51:25,220 --> 00:51:23,160
National Center Oh last week I guess it

1171
00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:25,230
was all the week before sat down with

1172
00:51:29,060 --> 00:51:27,120
Anne to get a series of interviews about

1173
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:29,070
the work of the National Center for

1174
00:51:35,180 --> 00:51:31,920
Science education when it comes to the

1175
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:35,190
the good information about evolution

1176
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:37,370
especially and also more recently

1177
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:40,770
climate change science but of course

1178
00:51:45,470 --> 00:51:42,780
coming up in the weeks to come even more

1179
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:45,480
interviews from Nexus including

1180
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:48,210
interview with the Bob novella from the

1181
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:50,610
skeptics guide to the universe thank you

1182
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:52,920
to those people who keep supporting the

1183
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:55,920
skeptic zone by patreon or micro

1184
00:52:01,460 --> 00:51:58,290
payments with PayPal I'm delighted to

1185
00:52:03,110 --> 00:52:01,470
say that owing to your generosity and

1186
00:52:05,090 --> 00:52:03,120
your continued support I was able to

1187
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:05,100
send one of my reporters a brand new

1188
00:52:11,950 --> 00:52:09,210
microphone just this week so look

1189
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:11,960
forward I won't tell you who it is oh

1190
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:14,610
they can do that when they give their

1191
00:52:18,170 --> 00:52:16,140
first report with their new microphone

1192
00:52:20,540 --> 00:52:18,180
in fact I've been inspired I went to

1193
00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:20,550
Ikea today this is not a plug for IKEA

1194
00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:22,830
especially this certainly don't get any

1195
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:25,380
money from them mm-hmm and I bought a

1196
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:30,610
little a little collapsible cloth cube

1197
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:34,210
it's very strange that only cost $5 but

1198
00:52:39,930 --> 00:52:36,640
I'm going to in the next few days get

1199
00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:39,940
some acoustic foam fit out the interior

1200
00:52:49,380 --> 00:52:43,420
of this box this cube and make myself a

1201
00:52:52,830 --> 00:52:49,390
little little desk top voice recording

1202
00:52:55,230 --> 00:52:52,840
booth I guess you'd call it I'm gonna

1203
00:52:57,090 --> 00:52:55,240
have some fun with that why not and if

1204
00:52:58,740 --> 00:52:57,100
it's any good well I guess you'll hear

1205
00:53:02,220 --> 00:52:58,750
the results next week on the skeptics

1206
00:53:04,770 --> 00:53:02,230
urn but but until then until then this

1207
00:53:11,310 --> 00:53:04,780
is Richard Saunders signing off from

1208
00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:11,320
Sydney Australia you've been listening

1209
00:53:17,850 --> 00:53:13,870
to the skeptic zone podcast visit our

1210
00:53:21,210 --> 00:53:17,860
website at WWF tech zone TV for contacts

1211
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:21,220
and archive of all episodes since 2008

1212
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:24,610
and our online store please support the

1213
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:26,650
skeptic zone by following us on twitter

1214
00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:30,010
at skeptic zone liking us on facebook

1215
00:53:34,950 --> 00:53:32,620
and leaving a review on itunes

1216
00:53:37,740 --> 00:53:34,960
you can also show your support by

1217
00:53:41,250 --> 00:53:37,750
subscribing via PayPal or as little as

1218
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:41,260
99 cents a week the skeptic zone is an

1219
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:43,450
independent production the views and

1220
00:53:47,580 --> 00:53:45,370
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1221
00:53:50,460 --> 00:53:47,590
and not necessarily those of Australian